How to waste money wisely.

Until the international markets crashed, with several leading financial institutions leading the way, Kevin Rudd as Prime Minister lacked any defining purpose to his leadership, and so treated us with various embarrassing attempts to establish his role with the 2020 Summit, the Fuel Watch and Grocery Watch websites, etc. The market crash was a blessing for him, as he then had a crisis to handle, which he has done so in the most visible possible way by finding things to spend money on. So much so that it is becoming difficult to keep track of.

So far there has been the $6.4 billion handout to the car industry, which followed on from earlier subsidies for Toyota to build hybrid vehicles in Australia, also $22 million to keep the precarious ABC Learning childcare centres open for a few more weeks, with talk of a full bailout to come. In the public sector Rudd has given local councils $300 million to spend, on the proviso that they must spend it quickly, and it 'is only the beginning'. While those on a pension are not forgotten with $1,400 or so to ease the burden of the crisis on those with the least means, though as Rudd argues, spending it on anything will do, such as “replacing an old appliance” (like replacing your old CRT TV with a 1080p plasma screen).

In a short space of time so much is being spent that it is difficult to keep account of, and there is a growing expectation that the $40 billion surplus accumulated by Costello will soon be gone, and deficit spending and raiding retirement funds will be the next phase in 'stimulating the economy'. There are very good arguments against stimulus packages, both from a theoretical and experiential standpoint, but I won't get into that now, as it seems that the course is set, and come what may, we're going to blow many billions of dollars over the next few years.

The car industry looks likely to be the recipient of the lion's share of bailout money, not because it employs very many people, but more that it is a national icon, and source of collective prestige. Australia is hardly alone in seeking prestige through a redundant car industry; the US is cursed with an even worse car industry that is even more dependent on state protection, and there are myriad minor countries like Malaysia that have engaged in car manufacturing for no other reason than fiat of national ego. We are going to spend $6.4 billion and counting just to replicate what is already commonplace throughout the developed and semi-developed world, without giving very much thought as to why we regard this as so terribly important.

So what else should we waste a huge amount of money on? There is constant chatter of developing infrastructure, without really stating what is meant by this, just that some new infrastructure will be able to facilitate more business activity. This could mean more new and efficient wharves to improve our export capability, but that would be over the Maritime union's dead body. Perhaps they could develop an urban and national integrated high speed rail service, but with the red tape of environmental impact studies, the necessary land resumptions, objections lodged in the courts, and interference from the incumbent transport lobby, this is unlikely to ever happen unless Rudd starts calling himself Il Duce.

Another possibility, and certainly a popular one, would be to get the so-called Broadband Revolution underway by the government ignoring Telstra's demand for monopoly control, and building it themselves as a public works program. And not the 25mbps as initially floated, but 100mbps as France, Finland, Holland, and other European countries are soon to adopt. While it may not stimulate the economy all that much, at least everyone would get to enjoy it while they are unemployed, which is a lot more than can be said for industry bailouts. However, with a Communications Minister like Stephen Conroy, who is maniacally hell-bent on destroying Australia's internet infrastructure rather than building it, we can safely assume nothing positive will happen on this front.

Thus given the need to 1. waste money, 2. on something of national prestige, and 3. pretend it is somehow going to stimulate the economy, we must look elsewhere for an object of our collective munificence, and I propose that elsewhere be space. It is now little remembered, but in 1967 Australia was actually the fourth country in the world to launch a satellite successfully. Albeit this was mostly on the back of borrowed hardware, it shows the intellectual ability to manage a space program quite readily exists in Australia, and with appropriate incentives, bright young students can be steered into science rather than Bachelors of Aboriginal Studies at the local degree mill.

Of course we will have to in-source much of the technical and scientific talent until such time there is a self-supporting space-science culture in Australia, so immigration policy will have to reflect this need. Rather than import an annual 25,000 unskilled migrants from the Pacific to pick fruit, as was proposed not so long ago, we would be compelled to actively entice the very best scientific minds in the world to come here. First we could start canvassing in Russia, where our higher wages and sunnier climate could be very attractive to snow-bound scientists who probably wish Global Warming was real. Then we can sound out employees of the European Space Agency, many of whom are probably sick of the endless committee meetings about which country gets to do what. (“We will only allow Hungarian solar panels if the rocket nozzles are made in France!”, “French rocket nozzles! Germany makes the best rocket nozzles!”) Even NASA should not be overlooked, there must be countless scientists and engineers feeling despondent being trapped in a space program that has been moribund since the 1960's. Depressed at continually patching up the Space Shuttle, the world's worst launch vehicle, with no replacement in sight, and the increasing possibility that President Obama will cancel the Constellation/Orion project, which in itself was little more than an updating of the Gemini/Apollo era hardware, many of the more ambitious NASA employees would jump at the chance to participate in a space program with real objectives, even if they incurred a pay cut by doing so.

So with the genuine skills shortage addressed, we can then set about developing launch facilities in the desert and thus also provide a much needed stimulus to the rural economy, as well as redistribute the population further inwards and relieve pressure from the more densely populated eastern seaboard. No doubt Bob Brown will say that it is violating aboriginal land rights, and that rocket launches will disturb the sleeping habits of an endangered sub-species of cockroach only found in the Simpson Desert, but the Liberals will almost certainly vote with the ALP to nullify any objections raised by the Greens. So this is a project that will enjoy bipartisan political support, helping to unite all Australian's around a common national goal.

As for the manufacture of space hardware this will no doubt take some time to achieve, but with the closing down of Ford and Holden factories this should permit the refactoring of much of our existing manufacturing base that includes skills and assembly processes to enable us to produce rocket engines and all the accompanying hardware required. A good starting point would be to buy a large number of Soyuz launchers from Russia in order to reverse-engineer them so that we can make all constituent parts ourselves allowing us to use Australian made Soyuz launchers for our initial steps into space. Once we have brought ourselves up to speed on the current state of space technology, then we will feel more confident in developing our own hardware for the next phase of our destiny in space, to colonise Mars, and claim the entire planet as an Australian territory.

To establish permanent settlement on Mars will require more than just the ability to get to Mars, but also a reliable and regular supply line to transport large amounts of supplies and personnel at optimal cost and efficiency. The more you do it, the cheaper it gets. This will require space stations to orbit both Earth and Mars so that interplanetary services are not burdened with having to act as launch vehicles also. Possibly rather than using planetary launch vehicles a ribbon supported elevator can be employed to cheaply convey materials and personal into space at either end.

Once Mars is settled and permanently defended by the Australian Space Force from counter-claims, we can then decide exactly what to do with it. This will almost certainly include ventures by BHP and Rio Tinto to mine Mars for whatever minerals found there, including the large deposits of subterranean ice known to exist on Mars. Once the colonies approach resource independence from Earth, then even larger populations can be supported who will be strongly in favour of terraforming with an eventual goal of making the air breathable, the soil able to grow grass, gum trees and other Australian flora, which can then provide feed for kangaroos, koalas, and emus. Once consolidated on Mars, Australia can extend its hand even further into space to establish a galactic empire, and finally throughout the universe the common greeting whether you are in the Andromeda Galaxy or the Magellenic Clouds will be “G'day mate!”

If all this sounds fancifully expensive, consider that for 2008, NASA's operating budget is a mere $17 billion US, well short of the Australian $40 billion annual budget surplus even when taking the exchange rate into account. Also NASA is a notoriously wasteful and inefficient organisation that has a knack for attaining lowest possible value per dollar spent, we can surely do much better. We can afford this right now, and only our leadership lacks the vision or ambition to do so. Now I have absolutely no doubt that Kevin Rudd is reading this, as the net filter trials would have tagged all pages that mention his name and forwarded them to his office for closer scrutiny. So Mr. Rudd, I implore you to stop throwing money at lost causes and instead make the universe an Aussie one.

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LamontCranston's picture

Victorian example

The Bracks & Brumby government found a good way to waste public money was to build a freeway nobody uses, propose an extension to the freeway nobody uses, propose a cross city tunnel nobody needs, widen existing freeways, and not only let public transport rot but renew the failed privatisation contract in spite of the fact that public transport patronage is at an all time high - repudiating their road obsession.
And then there is water. Greater encouragement for homes to install rainwater tanks and recycle? Trying out stormwater catchments rather than letting it all go out to sea? No, sir! Desalination and the abhorent north-south pipeline. Rather than being proactive about Australias issues with water, we're going to be lazy, steal from other people, and continue to be reliant on coal-fire powerstations.
Oh incidently, Dubya left the manned moon and mars and all that stuff unfunded (surprise surprise) so its not exactly Obamas fault if they have to cancel it. And lets face it - it generates no scientific research, it is however a great shot in the arm for the aerospace industry.

Tigger_'s picture

Quote: The Bracks & Brumby

Quote:
The Bracks & Brumby government found a good way to waste public money was to build a freeway nobody uses, propose an extension to the freeway nobody uses, propose a cross city tunnel nobody needs, widen existing freeways,

By this I take it that you are arguing that socialised transport solutions are failures, as you say they do not meet market needs.

Quote:
nd then there is water. Greater encouragement for homes to install rainwater tanks and recycle? Trying out stormwater catchments rather than letting it all go out to sea? No, sir! Desalination

It is my understanding that Victoria is held in a particularly strong grip by the environmental lobby, who often feature signs similar to this at their rallies:

Except they don't like desalination plants either, even though they were instrumental in fostering the conditions that brought them about.

Quote:
Oh incidently, Dubya left the manned moon and mars and all that stuff unfunded (surprise surprise) so its not exactly Obamas fault if they have to cancel it.

The Constellation project is funded at least to the point of creating a launch system to reach the ISS, which Dubya did fund, but Obama is keen on axing that to pay for more education (of all things). Obama wants to keep the Shuttle in service for years to come, and so any fatalities will be blood on his hands.

LamontCranston's picture

$38 billion!

Is the announced figure Brumby wants to spend on road projects in Victoria. Only a pittance for real rail projects and of course that ridiculous Cross City Tunnel*, plus recycling stuff that was already happening like the train purchases and Sunbury electrification. The new stuff is all very long term and vague and light on details, reminds me of an episode of The Hollowmen.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/brumbys-40bn-plan-to-get-victoria-moving-20081207-6t8k.html?page=-1
http://www.theage.com.au/national/more-tolls-possible-as-transport-plan-unveiled-20081208-6tna.html?page=-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZNetZYfakw
http://www.ptua.org.au/2008/12/08/vtp-reaction/
*At the first sign of trouble I bet it'll get left unfinished at the Domain.

The solutions for what could be done for our water needs as an alternative to the governments destructive policies are Green.

Quote:
even though they were instrumental in fostering the conditions that brought them about.

Really? They're responsible for logging in our water catchments? They're responsible for water hungry and/or polluting industry being given a free pass?
Stop the Green bashing, it seems like the more ignorant and opposite the facts the statement is then the more likely you are to spout it. You should stop that if you want this place taken seriously and not ignored as another trolling venture.

Tigger_'s picture

At least Brumby isn't throwing money at bailouts.

Quote:
The Age believes the Government's transport blueprint, to be revealed today, will involve nearly $40 billion of purchases and projects. Mr Brumby will claim the plan will create tens of thousands of jobs and transform Victoria's road network and public transport system into Australia's best.

And you don't think it's unrealistic for Australia to reach into space if this sort of money can be freely splashed around?

Quote:
Really? They're responsible for logging in our water catchments? They're responsible for water hungry and/or polluting industry being given a free pass? Stop the Green bashing, it seems like the more ignorant and opposite the facts the statement is then the more likely you are to spout it. You should stop that if you want this place taken seriously and not ignored as another trolling venture.

Andrew Bolt has written extensively on Melbourne's water problems, and the stern opposition to new dams maintained by the Greens, and their handlers, the Brumby government, such as when Bolt said the other week:

Quote:
As I said on Wednesday, the case for a new dam on, say, the regularly flooding Mitchell River is compelling. Too little water in Melbourne; too much in the Mitchell - just join the dots. You'd get three times the water for less than half the price of the $3.1 billion power-hungry desalination plant planned by the Premier.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24718191-5000117,00.html

While it is true that many industries are given virtually free water, even if they had to pay the full price the demand would not be in any degree lessened. So what you cited here is a problem of equity, not of supply.

But returning to the trenchant lefty opposition to dams, it is a good example of the philosophical incoherence of leftism in that they fanatically demand more immigrants, but then froth at the mouth at the idea of additional infrastructure to service the new masses. This is nothing new of course, in 1984 Orwell took note of how the deliberate creation of shortages was the true goal of the left, and any pretext will do.

LamontCranston's picture

what would Friedman say?

Quote:
While it is true that many industries are given virtually free water, even if they had to pay the full price the demand would not be in any degree lessened.

And here I was thinking if they were subjected to the market they might suddenly start trying to conserve water, silly me.

How about we return to your trenchant refusal to even acknowledge the existence of stormwater and the logging in Victorias catchments.

Quote:
but then froth at the mouth at the idea of additional infrastructure to service the new masses.

You continue to assert the exact opposite of whatever reality is. Eventually you'll be sitting in a wheelchair and obstinantly demanding "I want that one."
Who is ignoring public transport in Victoria? the Brumby government (and all others going right back to the 1960s for that matter) or lefties and Greens and other assorted rabble? Who wants more freeways, and who wants train lines to Doncaster and Rowville?

If you respond to this with more assertations to the exact opposite of reality I will be forced to end this debate.

Tigger_'s picture

Friedman might say this:

Quote:
And here I was thinking if they were subjected to the market they might suddenly start trying to conserve water, silly me.

You are exactly right. A free market will lead to conservation of resources, but state induced market distortions will only cause waste on the one hand, and scarcity on the other.

Quote:
How about we return to your trenchant refusal to even acknowledge the existence of stormwater and the logging in Victorias catchments.

I'm afraid I can't comment on that, as I don't know anything about this matter.

Quote:
You continue to assert the exact opposite of whatever reality is.

Show me a coherent position that the Greens make on immigration then?

b1rd@aanet.com.au's picture

excellent essay tigz.

I hereby DEMAND that every newspaper in the country publish tigger's A grade essay on their frontpage. This is not simply an opinion piece, it is news worthy of front page.

Tigger_'s picture

Thanks b1rd.

Props duly noted.

LamontCranston's picture

out of the $38billion, what they're doing for public transport

SHORT TERM
• Improving signalling, modernising overhead power supply, and extending the new METROL control system to the outer sections of the system.
• Upgrading overhead power supply control systems.
• Employing 24 extra platform staff at key stations in central Melbourne to improve crowd movement and reduce the time trains are delayed at stations.
• Improvements in driver changeover facilities to enhance the efficient operation of the train fleet and reduce delays.
• Better passenger information systems for V/Line services.
• A new timetable from early 2010 to progressively incorporate extra services made possible by the additional trains and the stabling upgrades now under construction.
• An additional 50 transit police, taking the total number to 250. This will allow for more patrols and increased security.
• Delivery of the current order of 18 new X’trapolis trains. These trains will start appearing on the system from late 2009.
• A further 20 X’trapolis trains to be ordered at a cost of about $650 million. All 38 trains will be delivered by 2014.
• $2 billion for up to 32 new generation trains each with 30 per cent greater carrying capacity.
• 54 new V/Line carriages currently on order.
• Up to 20 new V/Line carriages will be purchased to add 1,500 more seats to the regional fleet.
• When new trains and additional capacity are delivered to the public transport network in 2011, fares will increase above Consumer Price Index (CPI) to reflect some of the cost of the investment.
• The Epping Line will be extended from Epping to South Morang involving the duplication of five kilometres of single track between Keon Park and Epping and the construction of 3.5 kilometres of new double track from Epping to South Morang at a cost of more than $650 million.
• The Sydenham Line will be electrified from Sydenham to Sunbury over a distance of 15 kilometres at a cost of $270 million. This will free up V/Line carriages for increased services to Bacchus Marsh/Melton.
• $440 million will be spent to eliminate a number of level crossings across Melbourne starting immediately with Springvale Road, Nunawading. The rail line will be lowered under Springvale Road as well as the construction of a new premium Nunawading station, all set to open in 2010.
• Construction will commence in 2010 on four new stations including Williams Landing, Caroline Springs, Cardinia Road and Lynbrook. These stations will include bus interchanges, car parking, safe drop off zones, bike storage facilities and taxi ranks.
• $50 million will be spent to upgrade metropolitan stations including improved customer amenities, walkways, drop-off areas, taxi zones and improved bus to train connections.
• The first stage of the Regional Rail Link from Southern
Cross to Sunshine including the construction of platforms 15 and 16 at Southern Cross, 2 new unelectrified tracks from Southern Cross to Sunshine including new flyovers as well as the redevelopment of Sunshine. The second stage from Sunshine to West Werribee will be constructed after stage 1.
• A further $150 million spent on improved infrastructure to complement new low floor trams and buses.
• Work has already begun on an $80 million upgrade to Doncaster bus services, but the Government now proposes to increase that commitment
to $360 million, upgrading four key peak hour commuter bus routes from the Doncaster area into the CBD to SmartBus standard with a 10 minute service in peak periods, within three years.
• The rollout of the SmartBus network will continue with completion of the Red and Yellow orbital bus routes and Stage 2 of the Green orbital from Whitehorse Road to Melbourne Airport. (According to the VTP, the inner city Blue orbital has been dumped and the Green orbital from Airport West to Werribee has been put on the backburner.)
• A $500 million increase in funding for local bus services will see new and upgraded bus services in growth suburbs as they develop.
• Up to 270 new low floor buses will be bought to replace older buses over the next three years, increasing the share of low floor buses to at least 76%.
• Commuters will have more ‘real time’ information about traffic conditions so they can plan the best route. A comprehensive one stop online information portal will give people the maps and timetables they need to plan trips, and real time information and better signage will assist travellers during their journey.

MEDIUM TERM
• 50 new low floor trams will be ordered with each being able to carry
more than 200 passengers. Maintenance and stabling facilities will also be developed and upgraded with the total cost (trams+main.) being $1 billion.
• Stage 1 of the "Melbourne Metro" rail tunnel from Fooscray to the Domain Interchange to enable an extra 14 trains per hour to enter the inner city. This project will provide for long term extensions of the rail network and stage 1 will cost more than $4.5 billion. Development of Stage 1 is expected to start in 2012 and be completed by 2018.
• Services on the Melton Line will be doubled following completion of the Regional Rail Link and the Sunbury electrification. These projects will allow relocation of V/Line trains to the Melton Line. Along with Caroline Springs being constricted in 2010, other stations will be built as development progresses and patronage rises. As train numbers increase, sections of the line will be duplicated. As the proposed Rockbank major activity centre is developed, the line will be electrified.
• The Cranbourne Line will be extended to a new station at Cranbourne East.

LONG TERM
• Planning for the development of new rail lines in the future is underway to develop and preserve options for a range of future rail lines including Cranbourne East - Clyde, South Morang - Mernda, an Epping Line branch to Aurora/North Epping, Craigieburn - Donnybrook/Beveridge, Upfield - Roxburgh Park and Frankston - Baxter.
• While the Airport Rail Link is currently not viable, a corridor identified
in an earlier planning study has been reserved for such a link and will be reconsidered in the middle of the next decade.
• Triplification of the Belgrave/Lilydale Line between Box Hill and Ringwood.
• Construction of the second stage of "Melbourne Metro" rail tunnel from the Domain Interchange to Caufield as well as triplification of the Cranbourne/Pakenham Line from Caulfield to Westall.
• New stabling on the Werribee Line.
• A new station at Westfield Southland Shopping Centre on the Frankston Line.
• An upgrade of Richmond Station.
• New tram link along Dynon Road (I assume this would be a link from the Route 82 terminus in Footscray to LaTrobe Street/Spencer Street in the CBD).

props to the folks at RailPage

Tigger_'s picture

Not insubstantial

Well at least they're doing something. But of course if the VIC govt can spend $1.5 billion on a ticketing system, one wonders how far this will go.

As it happens Bolt has written an extremely angry rant this morning about the state of Victorian water and transport, amongst other things: http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_choked_by_our_stupidity/

He testifies that things are no better for car drivers, who are regularly stalled for an hour on the freeway.

Personally I think that once a city reaches a certain size, trying to improve transport, services, etc. is a zero-sum game, as improvements are canceled out by population increases. Only in places like Japan where population is pretty static can they get on top of things. One consequence of this is that large cities just become a conglomeration of towns that almost coincidentally share the same spot on the map, and have nothing in common with each other, no interaction with each other, except when it absolutely can not be avoided.

LamontCranston's picture

pittance

A lot of it is just ordinary upkeep and maintenance that ought to be routine. If you make a big announcement for signal upgrades then you probably throw a party when you clip your toenails.

Costings are also very strange:
$270 million to electrify 15 kilometers of track to Sunbury? The tracks are there, V/Line trains run on it regularly to Sunbury, Bendigo, Ballarat & Swan Hill. How much does it cost to string electric train cables and their support? The Craigieburn project (of higher complexity) was only $100 million for 10km.
$650 million to extend the Epping line 4 kilometers to one station in South Morang? It used to go there, further in fact I think, if you look at the Melways its still listed as 'disused rail line' and nothings been built over it. And in 2003 is was calculated at $348 million.

And now we have this revelation: http://www.theage.com.au/national/brumby-fluffs-kosky-follows-20081209-6uze.html - Premier Brumby & Transport Minister Kosky are ignorant about the cost of fares in Melbourne and the fact that they are more expensive then Sydney or Brisbane.

Tigger_'s picture

Contradictory objectives

Actually this is evidence of one of the more interesting features of socialistic-left government, that the ideology is torn between two ultimately contradictory goals, 1. providing good pay and conditions for their employees (and the socialist-left state has a lot of employees), and 2. providing service to the broader public. In the real world you can only ever meet one of these goals, since to serve the public well means making your employees work hard, efficiently, and cost effectively, something they are loathe to do. In the socialist-left administrative hierarchy, the employees exert far more influence (unionism) over the government than the public can, so you end up getting the worst employees at the greatest expense.

So when it costs hundreds of millions to carry out very minor expansions of infrastructure, and takes an inordinate amount of time to implement, it is clear that the state's employees are riding this for all they can, all the way from the departmental heads down to the blokes with the shovel and pick-axe.

This is why the socialist-right is historically much more effective at providing services, since its ideology preferences the broader public over the employees, and makes no secret of its contempt of unions. The Queensland National Party, being the main bastion of the socialist-right in Australia, ran the trains, hospitals, electricity, and other public utilities very well, and it is still a commonly heard refrain that "Joh knew how to get things moving!" Similarly moving further along the socialist-right spectrum you have Mussolini and Hitler, also begrudgingly admired for making things work the way they were meant to. This is further borne out at the opposite end of the socialist political spectrum, with the USSR having abysmal public services in every respect.

LamontCranston's picture

one problem

Quote:
The Craigieburn project (of higher complexity) was only $100 million for 10km.

Disproves your argument.

Tigger_'s picture

More information?

Like when? Under what govt?

And $100 million is still a lot.

LamontCranston's picture

ignorant as ever

September 30 2007. Bracks.
And you need to keep in mind the gradient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigieburn_railway_line,_Melbourne

Tigger_'s picture

Is Brumby evil?

So how do you account for the difference between Bracks and Brumby then?

Quote:
The almost-continuous gradients were a factor when, in 2003, an unmanned suburban train rolled the entire length of the line from Broadmeadows to the city, and crashed into a stationary but loaded passenger train waiting to depart Spencer Street Station.

Somehow I missed the news about this, sounds like quite a drama.

LamontCranston's picture

dunno

a) Brumby is even more road crazy than Kennett
b) they've just picked random costings out of thin air

Tigger_'s picture

Space Elevator

I made mention of the space elevator being a component of the Australian intergalactic empire, but it seems that this will be problematic, as an article in New Scientist today claims:

Quote:
Even with adequate materials, space elevators might be highly unstable. Gravitational tugs from the Moon and Sun, as well as pressure from gusts of solar wind, could shake the tether, potentially causing the elevator to crash into nearby satellites or space junk. Thrusters might be needed to keep the tether in line. Now, it seems that the act of climbing itself could also cause the tether to wobble.

But here is a cool illustration of what might never come to pass:

LamontCranston's picture

Well I can see the mostly

Well I can see the mostly upside down northern Australia at the top and Papua to the left of that, so what Indochina country did we build that in and how did we do it?

Tigger_'s picture

We invaded Indonesia

Using our puppet state, East Timor, we annexed the entirety of Indonesia for their advantageous equatorial position. Then we shipped all Indonesians to the Moon to work deep in our mines. Only we call them Morlocks now.

LamontCranston's picture

I see now

ah I see, its in Central Sulawesi provience.
Invading a large diverse nation and carrying out a major space exploration program at the same time.

Tigger_'s picture

Terraformed Mars

I propose that the ocean we see in this artists illustration of a terraformed Mars be named "Mare Tiggerus Magnus"

LamontCranston's picture

whats with the perfectly

whats with the perfectly round lakes in the east?

Tigger_'s picture

Craters

Just like impact crater lakes on Earth such as Siljan Lake in Sweden.